Sunday, August 1, 2010

Breasts and pecs controversy

So, yet again, Y Gallery´s new mods anatomical unknowledge or narrow mindedness has , uh, "censored me" , I guess.

I mean, I know it has happened to us all. We are on the beach, the locker room or showers and we see a guy with huge pecs, and our first reaction is to rush to them and put a towel over their racks.
- Excuse me miss, cover that up!-
Never happened? oh....

I would like explain my point, in case any of Y' s mod happens to stumble around here.

Breasts and Pecs
I know there might be some confusion on this. But they are not so hard to tell apart if you know them. Now dear readers, please be warned this might be a bit graphic, but it´s all for the sake of making an argument, I promise :P

These are breasts
They are made mostly of fatty tissue. Therefore, their dynamics are very specific. They hang and sag very much in the fashion of a water filled balloon. Granted there are different types of breasts, you can always guess they are FEMALE for their pear shape and soft and puffy nature.

Now, Pecs are a completely different story.
While most people are familiar with fairly flat chests in males, the developed pectoral muscle is also a part of male anatomy, one I`m particularly fond of, and has a very different shape than breasts
Male pectorals are made of muscle and fat, we all know that. But I wonder if these kids at Y know how muscle actually behaves?
When relaxed, these muscles become softer and bulge, very much in the same way the hamstring hangs while we are sitting.

Took this awesome pic from Eric Arvin´s blog, hope he doesn´t mind

We bara enthusiasts love our muscular man, and we tend to exaggerate those body parts we find particularly attractive, in this case the chest

Now guys, I know most of us, if not all of us, recognize the huge difference between this and this.

Now, I hope you understand where I`m coming from about being upset for having this piece removed for, once again," giving him female breasts"

I broke a rule about characters needed to be explicitly male, and this image is "very misleading".
Protip: When in doubt, check the thing between the legs, that should clear it

This may come as a shock, from a site that has a cross-dressing niche.

As of now, I`m temporarily banned from Y.
I used to love Y gallery. I know a lot of people hated Snover, but I don´t remember things being as bad as they are now.
Most of the people I watched are gone now, there only remains very few good artists. The only reason I post there is because of all the nice people I`ve met, and the support they gave this perv when I had my first attempts at posting bara art.
Such a great site under such management :(


Jubell said...

I thought they had fixed the whole "feminine appearance" controversy on Y!gallery. When I saw you were once again suspended I was like...hmmmm

Because while I'm NOT of the opinion that 'because you do good art you can break the rules as you see fit'...I don't think in this case you've had an actual violation. Everyone knows that you're not trying to make men with BREASTS, its just an emphasis on what you like.

I think for whatever reason Y!gallery is trying to appease those who just want to have a problem with your approach.

Still, I would highly suggest next time you have a pic, just pass it by the admins on Star runner. Because once they say "This is fine" you can place an "approved by the mods" in your entry description and whenever someone reports it it pretty much gets thrown out.

Because there will be a record on Star Runners that already states nothing is wrong with your pic.

Eric Arvin said...

Those assholes! I need my big tiity fix!

And of course I don't mind about the pic! It's utter hotness...or is that UDDER hotness? Haha. I'm hilarious.

The new pic is A-MAY-ZIIING! I need to see an animated film with your hotties.

Zeldrin said...

You should do rants/treatises like thes more often, it's geniunely entertaining. Of course you're right about both your points. Pecs DO look very different from breasts, unless you partiuclarly try to make one look lik the other, and YES, the Ygal mods are a bunch of rabid IDIOTS.

Cheers on the excellent writeup, good sir!

icy said...

............... WTF...............
R the mods really yaoi/bara/gay manga/comic fans? It's impossible to mess up gigantic pecs and breast...

eeks said...

I really enjoy beeing on Y!gallery, but when I hear something lithe this, I'm just upset and disgusted! Some people in the staff are really stupid... or hypocrit.
I cannot really think they firmly believe you've drawn women breast, for it's so obvious that the guys you draw or... guys! (and they are so manly and sexy!)
I dunno, maybe some people there doesn't like you or are jaleous of your work, and that would be the reason of this shit...
I'm sorry to say that, but some people are really some assholes.

Tommy said...

Probably because its a bunch of bitter women or lonely gay boys who run that place, and yea I don't get it. They allow for hourglass figures now as well, so it seems like they are selective about what they choose to do.

I agree with you, its really gone down hill since it was first opened. You would think a niche community would be more open minded but its pretty limiting some times.

Well I like all your stuff, have since you first started posting. I will just follow you on your blog then. I can use your big big muscle pictures for my gym motivation, though its probably an extreme end of the spectrum.

Eric Arvin said...

I know I've already commented, but I was just thinking, How dare they say one sex has more right to boobs than another (which IS what they are implying). It's downright booby bigotry...It's boobitry!

Zeldrin said...

No, Eric, it's physiology. xD

Eric Arvin said...

Zeldrin, it was a play on words.

Zeldrin said...

Eric, it was a pisstake. :D

Anonymous said...

I loved this entry as much as I love your work. I have no idea why your entries are banned. The pectoral exaggeration in your work is what gets me off. I love it, your work get me hard whenever I see it. I just can't get enough. Screw the Y! Gallery, if the people you drew were real I would pay huge money to get my hands on them.
Keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

I think the thing you (and a bunch of commenters) are missing here is that it's not that they think you were trying to draw breasts--it's that they think you drew what LOOKS like breasts. They can't look like boobs, or be mistaken for boobs easily, or they're not allowed.

And I recognize that you probably won't agree with me, but I think in that particular picture, yes, they did look like breasts. They were round, and the man's body position was arranged in such a way that they would not have been rounded like that on an actual muscular man, even if they were very large--note that your example photograph shows the man curling INWARDS, which is a position that makes those muscles droopier, while your picture shows him curling OUTWARDS, which tightens the chest.

I'm sorry you were suspended and I hope you come back soon, and continue enriching y!Gallery with your art.

SoupGoblin said...

Seriously y!gal? Seriously?

Unfortunately, I've noticed that talking to a mod there is much like talking to a crazy person. And they NEVER take back a judgment, even when you clearly argue to them how it's incorrect. Guess they're afraid it'll make them look weak maybe.

Jubell's advice is sound, of course. In an ideal world you wouldn't need to get pre-approved, but better to be safe than sorry . . . :/

So just remember! Men with huge SEXY pecs can easily be mistaken for women, while waif-thin boys with long sparkling hair and wearing lacy dresses are obviously male.

Lhydium said...

I don't agree with Y!gal's actions, but I have to agree with Tchy. I LOVE huge pecs and think boobs are nasty, and I unfortunately find the relaxed, unstretched pecs on your guys to overly resemble boobs. In addition to everything Tchy mentioned, the sheen you draw surrounding the nipples appear to make them centered and on the most raised part of the chest, not unlike the position of female nipples. This is particularly evident in your Sultry Dimitri drawing.

I don't think anybody is confusing breasts with pecs. To some people, your chest renderings just look more like boobs than hot man muscle.

DinosaurPrince said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DinosaurPrince said...

Last year the artist Neo123 posted two images that were almost identical. One was taken down for looking like female breasts, the other was left up. There was no difference. He felt the mod just targeted him plain and simple. He was scared cause at the time he was depending on commission money from the site.

Today someone posted something up with soggy man tits, that are really round and female looking, but that's okay of course. :O

There is so much inconsistency on that site it's not funny. Different mods have different views I guess.

I saw Ulys comments be misread by a mod and get banned for life, till I came in and talked to one of the good mods and had them clear his name.
I got a commission that was taken down for having an inhuman penis, yet other images done by the same artist are still up...go figure.

I agree about the cross dressing things. There are more girls labeled as guys on that site then you can shake a stick at. :( I see that as just as offensive as a guy with actual tits. There are a lot of characters that only being said to be guys so they can get on the site. :( This stuff doesn't bother me, (Some of them are very cute) but it is there.

Remember when you had an image taken down for having a female in it? Here is something I have wondered. Why is an image allowed where this is a woman asking for a guy to get naked? There is a Shin fan art that has this happening.

I know they say woman should not be the center of attention, but this one is clearing asking for something naughty to start happening. The one woman in your image were fainting and the other was upset. Was it breaking a rule cause a guy with hard on was being a gentleman and catching her? Ugh...So a woman asking for a sexual favor is okay though. I just don't get how lose they can be with the rules.

MiOworks went through this same thing a few weeks ago. I am sorry to see them enforce strict rules on nice artists.

DEVILMAN said...

I am........not surprised anymore xDDDD

Its is well known that the rules in Y change in the perspective on each one of the mods. Soo if you submit a picture and theres a mod close and she/he had good sex last night then your safe, but if the mod in question is pissed for some reason, she/he is going to find a vagina or any other stuff against the rules in your art

I agree tpugth. Y! i a lot of fun and have a lot of awesome people, but post an art in there is like walk on a minefield. Dont feel too bad, honestly, the destiny of us all is to be baned sooner or later

Abs said...

Hi, thanks for your comments!
Actually, I try not to have an attitude with the TOS, specially cuz I`m not all that involved with Y anymore. I really I`m wrestling with the thought of keep posting there or post all of my work here

Eric Arvin:
Lol, down with boobitry!
Maybe one day I will finally get my own animation studio. Ohhh, the things I´d do heh heh :P

Thanks a lot man!.
I don´t like to bitch out, people come don´t come here for that :P
I promise I`ll make up for it with more smut pretty soon

Lol, I know
They are yaoi fans, that´s for sure. I dunno why the "breast" topic is so sensitive...
Hope there´s not some kind of misogynist undertone -_-

heh heh, yeah. Unfortunately that kind of things always happens.
You know, some times I wonder about that myself, but I try to think they are just trying to justify their decisions and not taking it personal against anybody. At least that’s what I hope

And man, you don´t want to piss those people off, I tell you :P
I used to love how varied and inclusive was Y! when it first opened. I mean, it was a refreshing change from those porn boards where everyone would bitch at everyone. Y! seemed like a place people could post and fap freely.
Thanks a lot for your comments, I`m really glad my pics could help as motivation!!

Thank you!
It gets me off too actually. I mean, I know guys like this can´t possibly exist but hey, that´s what fantasies are for, right? XD

Abs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Abs said...


First of all, thank you for commenting. It is interesting to hear diverse views on this matter, I appreciate it
lso, thank you for proving my point.
As you stated, it`s not about if I tried to draw pecs or boobs, it´s about people being able to mistake them for boobs. To you, they actually do look like breasts, which I totally respect . But as you can see, not everyone agrees. It comes down to subjective appreciation. How people feel breasts and pecs should look like.

This is what the actual rule says:

"All male characters must not appear to have overtly feminine characteristics, i.e. the appearance of female breasts or genitalia.
The short version of rule 1c is if it looks like a woman, do not post it.
The more female characteristics a work has (full lips, women’s clothing, big eyes, hourglass figure, soft jaw, etc.) the more scrutinous we will be. This rule does not explicitly prohibit effeminate men, but it has to be clear that they are not women."

So, knowing that there are different views on how a male chest should look like, why not take a more open approach? If there is not right answer, why not take the whole image into judgment?

Isn´t it a bit biased for the mods to discard a piece for displaying ambiguous pectoral muscles while keeping pieces of males in drag, make up, wedding gowns , or having m-preg or fatty manboobs?

Lastly, I´m afraid you misunderstood the point of that picture. It was merely an example of how the male chest moves and shifts, not an analogy for my pic. This might clear the confusion regarding the position of Zoah´s pectorals. I´m assuming you´re a male, so feel free to correct me if I´m wrong:
Stand bare-chested in front of a mirror and grab your crotch. Regardless of your constitution you´ll notice the muscle will form a round mound . The more muscle you have, the rounder and fuller this mound will appear. In this position, the chest will appear rounder than in standing position.
See for yourself:

Abs said...

What matters is what the people I draw this stuff for thinks :)
I couldn`t care less about mods, what realy moves me is when people say "ooh, I got a boner from that pic" lol

I agree with you.
All people have different views on this matter, as you can see on that bara board´s manboobs thread. But I think we both agree the measures on Y! are being detrimental for their own community

Wow, you remebered that??
Thank you very much!! I too feel there is a biased judgmente going on. I´d hate to think mods are just trying to limit artists to their own preferences

ha ha ha ha
You say their decisions are based on that??!! lol
Then we are screwed, you know what people say about yaoi fangirls :S

Ktastrofe said...

Hi, I'm ktastrofe from Y!

I wanted to comment earlier... I even PM'd you on Y! for when you return.

I was mostly pissed off today when I found out you were suspended. Even more so when I saw the Zoah pic for which you were suspended... yet even more so when right after messaging you I noticed some new user post "With approval from the mods" an animation of some girls crying over a freaking dead flower, he/she/it said it was a boy... it looks NOTHING like a boy, it's a flat chested girl, but they approved it!

I really am staring to think they just want to push everyone who actually likes men and leave it a site for androgynous or effeminate "men".

well, keep up the good work, your artwork is as always AMAZING... and very hot!


At least I'll get to see you back two days after my b-day!:D

Ktastrofe said...

Sorry for double posting... but today i remembered something that really annoys me and didn't mention yesterday...

I REALLY hate the ToS at Y!, specially for the "This rule intentionally left blank." rule.

To me that basically reads; "If any of us don't like you, your work or anything, we'll find a reason to remove it and ban you for it!

Anonymous said...

With the Demitri pic from a while back, I thought the pecs you drew did look someone breast-like, but these? I don't see how anyone could mix these up.

Anonymous said...

How stupid. You shouldn't be banned for such gorgeous pecs! By the way, what is the first picture in the chest trio? It is really familiar and I know it is Zoro from One Piece but can ya link it?

Lucien said...

Go see pics of Russain bodybuilder Aleksey Lesukov for biggest male tits and nipple placements in the world

Mindtrip said...

I think it's very hypocritical that they would ban you for having a character that isn't "obviously male" when they allow androgeny and hourglass figures.

Anonymous said...

hey i know this is hella delayed but can you tell me where you got those bara hot ass titty pictures in that banner of three? WANTWANTWANT

harley said...

you are one of the best and most exciting artists around. visualizng the dream fantasy of gay male sexuality. not everybodies but certainly mine. but i like bears too cheers thanks a lot for your excellent work

harley said...

men can develop huge male muscle mass check out branch warren and art atwood both totally hot. it is insecure bodybuiders who under develop their chests, delts humungus, arms at least twice to three times as developed.
i am a fan of pecs totally developed oh yeah,
also your work is magnificent. really charged with emotion.

Hylas said...

i realize this is already an older discussion... but i just wanted to say, y!gallery is a great concept, and it has many great members, but the managment is awful. nitpicking and narrowmindedness instead of creativity and freedom of sexual expression. i, too, had a couple of pictures refused for idiotic reasons, so i left again. what i will never ever understand is that they are so narrowminded and strict about content control, yet they allow pedo drawings.

huge pecs said...

i just did a search for huge pecs and found your discussion. i have big pecs and love big pecs on other guys. it takes lots of work to build big pecs. they attach to the body in so many ways that lots of different movements are needed to work all the muscle. you end up with something that is nothing like a breast. the pec can move and flex in so many ways and change appearance so much as it does. see my work at huge pecs on you tube and say hi

barrypex said...

I love breasty pecs! of course, huge is a must. Siliconed-breasted men & women are hot!